New Mexico State hoops

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Monday, December 7, 2009

There is one rule for posting on this blog entry

Normally I publish all comments. I don't like anon posts but I do like that people like posting here.

For this particular subject, you have to sign your name. Since everyone seems to know if Troy or Wendell will or will not return, consider this your place on this blog to discuss this topic. If you're a student, professor or someone with some actual knowledge on the topic, I don't think asking for a name behind your comment is too much to ask but everyone seems to know for sure and I don't even know.

Getting the grades for students is impossible, and I think it's illegal but I'm not sure. I do know that asking Coach Menzies consistently, he finally said on Monday that both guys are 50-50 to return and since professors aren't required to turn in final grades until Tuesday I believe, assuming they will be on the court on Sunday is a huge leap of faith.

31 comments:

Anonymous said...

I graduated 14 years ago from NMSU so, I have no clue how they are doing in class.

I will say this, history has an ugly way of repeating itself and one or both, will not be eligible.

I know Menzies is really counting his blessings but, I say he's toast at the end of the season.
That's what he gets for recruiting kids that are always having issues w/ the NCAA Clearing house and being a HORRIBLE coach.

"It's GO Time," Menzies!

Jefe

Anonymous said...

Jason, it is illegal to discuss students' grades, let alone post them anywhere online. I know this because I teach at NMSU. I can actually lose my job if I discuss any student's grade without his explicit permission. Even though student-athletes sign a waiver, in general it doesn't cover anything else besides releasing information to their academic counselors but not to coaches.

If grades are due on Tuesday, then how can we expect them to be eligible for Sunday's game? I just don't understand how this works.

As far as whether or not the two guys will be eligible, personally I think it's not worth discussing any more. We will hear fairly soon what the deal with the two of them is. No point speculating for the next few days. I have my doubts since I've actually worked with both of them in the past but everyone seems to be confident they will be back. I don't believe for a minute what Menzies say; based on contact I have had with him in the past, I have to say when it comes to academics he is totally clueless, plus he will say anything that sounds good at the moment.

just my two cents.
Rachel

Anonymous said...

Jason,

What would be the situation if either player is unable to make grades? Gillenwater already redshirted but Wen hasnt so what would be the scenario for each player if they didnt pass.

GS

Anonymous said...

I am not close to NMSU,so cannot not comment on the specifics for these two.

I can comment generally.

1. The individual most responsible for the situation with academic eligibility is the Compliance Officer, Braun Cartwright and his staff. They are the ones responsible for getting the documentation to the NCAA.

2. It is not as easy as it seems. The NCAA Clearingouse is notorious for not being very user friendly. They do not make it easy for secondary schools to get their clases and programs approved, and at times have very perplexing regulations. Where else is it possible to have advanced placement calculus not be an approved course, while 9th grade general math counts? But, if a secondary school has not gotten approval for the AP Calc, that is exactly what can happen. When there are difficulties, in some cases, it is the ssecondary school that has to take the action to get it resolved. They do not always have the sense of urgency that we feel.

3. Yes, it can be illegal to give out grades of students to others. If an individual has no "educationally valid" reason to receive the information, it requires a specific release from the student. Thus, instructors and coaches, and other officials have to be careful about what they say.

4. I am on the academic standards committee at an NCAA university. We make decisions about probation, academic dismissal, etc. for all students, not just athlets. Through that I have gotten some insight into atletic eligibility issues, and have seen a bunch of things that don't make a heck of a lot of sense when it comes to the NCAA.

4. All that being said, the best action to avoid having problems is for teh student to do a good job in the calssroom, as well as on the court/field. Ultimately, it is the studnet athlete's responsibility to gain and maintain eligibility. However, that is not always the first thing on their minds. The coach can and should work to keep it in front of them.

Steve

Jason Groves said...

Steve and Rachel. Thanks for your insights. Rachel, as far as playing Sunday, it seems like that's a perfect world scenario if the university professors report their grades and they do what they need to do, they could play. But NMSU typically takes its time with a lot of matters and grades aren't technically due until Tuesday...so I would be surprised if they are able to play.

Anonymous said...

The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA) (20 U.S.C. § 1232g; 34 CFR Part 99) is a Federal law that protects the privacy of student education records. The law applies to all schools that receive funds under an applicable program of the U.S. Department of Education.

Thus, no educator or university staff member worth his or her salt would talk about the grades of a student without that student's permission.

PJ

MIkey V said...

Last time I checked Basketball was a team sport. How can the NMSU Aggies pin their hopes of making it to the post season, and saving Menzies the embarrassment of getting fired, on the shoulders of two ineligible “Student Athletes”? Do you really think that two players can make that much of a difference when it takes a team to play offense and defense?
The Aggies performance is a reflection on the coach’s ability to prepare his team, and from what I have seen the coach is failing, much like an Ineligible Student Athlete.

Anonymous said...

The sooner you all realize that there is no "magic pill" for coaching and team play. The sooner we can move on.

I know everyone and ESPECIALLY Menzies are hoping McKines, Gillenwater and West are that magic pill.
Sorry, but we still have a terrible coach and a bunch of individuals running around like a chickens w/o a head!

10 yr. vet said...

One thing that I think is being overlooked here is the possibilty that one or both of these young men could decide that it is in their best interest to not play for NMSU regardless of what happens with them academically this semester. I would caution against assuming that if they are not playing Sunday or even next week that it is 100% tied to their academic status.

Anonymous said...

"...How can the NMSU Aggies pin their hopes of making it to the post season, and saving Menzies the embarrassment of getting fired, on the shoulders of two ineligible “Student Athletes”?..."

---------------------

One of the two missing athletes was the leading rebounder in the WAC last year and, if I'm not mistaken, the 3rd leading rebounder in the NCAAs. The other was the other starting forward and an offensive producer. Both were starters. Both knew the system. Add these two and you don't have Rahman petering out at the end of the game. Add these two and you're getting more rebounding and better scoring, which takes pressure off the guards who have been having to shoot from the outside.

So, yes, these two players might make a difference. Only time will tell.

Justin said...

Mikey,

2 athletes is a disproportional amount of a basketball team, especially when it's your best post scorer and your most complete player.

Chop off 2 of your 5 fingers and see how well you can function.

Anonymous said...

Two players such as Gillenwater and McKines will add a whole different dimension to the Aggies. McKines is a tenacious rebounder on the defensive as well as offensive boards. Gillenwater can block shots, hit the 17 footer, knock down the occasional 3, as well as rebound the ball. There is NO inside presence currently. I don't like Menzies philosophy as much as the next person but how do you coach a team that is one dimensional? Any coach would have a difficult job directing a team with only relying on the guards to carry the load. Wendell and Troy would provide that balance the Aggies desperately need. It is just too bad that these players are too lazy to do what it takes off the court in order to be on the court. Go Aggies!

Season Ticket Holder

Anonymous said...

hahaha!!!!! Well put Justin, couldn't have said it better myself. I think adding Mckines and Gillenwater change this team drastically. It adds a lot of match up problems for other teams and helps take the focus of Gib and JY! That's what i think, so only time will tell, hoping they are eligable as well!! I will continue to go to every game i can and support the AGGIES!!!

Mikey V said...

It seems my earlier posting has received a few counterpoints, something about fingers and cutting them off, the statistician that graciously provide last years stats.

Two issues that lead to where we are today people let’s not forget that.

1. If the players are “Student Athletes” then they should be students first. Student-“a person who is studying at a school or college.” Key word in the previous sentence, STUDYING.

So let me guess, the professors all of a sudden decided to give these players poor grades, thus making them ineligible. No it was the player own fault, for not doing the academic requirements as stated in the class syllabus that made them ineligible.

2. Bobby Night once taught me a valuable lesson about coaching. It is the responsibility of the head coach to motivate and inspire his team to be better than they are.

When the season start it’s not worth it to sit and wonder what the season would have been if only we had this player or that player. You have to play with the player you have, much like poker, you play the hand that you are dealt.

Menzies has failed to inspire his players to be better than they are. The proof can be found in their win/loss record to date. Leadership starts from the top and works down to the bottom. Menzies has failed to inspire his team or even a single player step up and fill the void left behind by the two missing players.

Mikey V said...

It seems my earlier posting has received a few counterpoints, something about fingers and cutting them off, the statistician that graciously provide last years stats.

Two issues that lead to where we are today people let’s not forget that.

1. If the players are “Student Athletes” then they should be students first. Student-“a person who is studying at a school or college.” Key word in the previous sentence, STUDYING.

So let me guess, the professors all of a sudden decided to give these players poor grades, thus making them ineligible. No it was the player own fault, for not doing the academic requirements as stated in the class syllabus that made them ineligible.

2. Bobby Night once taught me a valuable lesson about coaching. It is the responsibility of the head coach to motivate and inspire his team to be better than they are.

When the season start it’s not worth it to sit and wonder what the season would have been if only we had this player or that player. You have to play with the player you have, much like poker, you play the hand that you are dealt.

Menzies has failed to inspire his players to be better than they are. The proof can be found in their win/loss record to date. Leadership starts from the top and works down to the bottom. Menzies has failed to inspire his team or even a single player step up and fill the void left behind by the two missing players.

Anonymous said...

Good post Mickey V!

A lot of people are talking how these two knuckle heads are going to come and turn things around.

If they are eligible and thats a BIG IF.
They will get us a couple more wins because of talent and not coaching.

I still haven't forgiven Menzies for inheriting an NCAA tournament team and keeping them at .500% except for the last two weeks of the season!
Same thing last year and YTD!

Menzies is without doubt the worst coach in the history of NMSU Basketball!
What the hell was Boston thinking when he hired him?!!

Aggietude

Anonymous said...

Who is Bobby (N)ight?

justin said...

Mikey,

I agree that the program has deeper issues than just missing it's 2 power forwards, and my comment regarding your fingers was perhaps a bit much.

That said, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a team to improve if it gets 2 of its best players back. Anyone who watched this team play last year could see how essential Wendell was to team chemistry and on-court energy, and see that Gillenwater is a difficult mismatch for most of our opponents. To me, losing Wendell is probably more deadly than losing Young or Gibson, given that he contributes in every area of the game and keeps the team together.

Anonymous said...

What's the new NMSU presidents view on athletics? That is what we all need to be concerned about now. Nothing is going to get better without her full support, if she is not a supporter of athletics it could be a long next 10 years for NMSU athletics.

Anonymous said...

We should go after Rod Strickland. Good, young, up and coming coach who can probably recruit.

Anonymous said...

Get ready Aggie sports fans cuz it is going to get worse! Another $300,000 in budget cuts is just around the corner. Where are they going to take the money from? We are already in a bind in so many ways. This is going to get real bad. yes, what does our new prez think about athletics? don't assume just because she is coming from nebraska that she is in to athletics. This is going to be scary.
Fan

Anonymous said...

Well it's Friday. Do you have your grades posted? I do. Let see if I continue to support Aggie basketball this year, or if I hold out until I get a new basketball coach. Has anyone seen Nolan????

Enough with the bull. Almost all college instructors know by now what their students grades are. So what's the verdict on our two "Athletic Scholars"? Menzies did you sleep this week??? Your job is depending on their study habits not the ability to score. Should of thought about that when you recruited them.

On a serious note. How come Diop never suits up. Is he here for a free education or what? He's 6-6 and could probably help us in the rebound area if nothing else. Or is he a "Project"?

Let me know Menzies.

KEG

Anonymous said...

Jason,

Keg asks a questions that I was wondering too, what is the deal with Diop? I know he suited up last semester but I dont think he played. I've seen him at every Aggie game this season. Is he redshirting or something?

GS

Anonymous said...

Have you heard anything on Troy, and Wendell yet?

Jason Groves said...

GS, Diop has battled some injuries early in season. I don't know if you have noticed him limping into the lockerroom with the team on gamedays. I know that fans are hopeful that help is on the horizon, but Diop has never been described to me as more that a good kid and a practice player

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