New Mexico State hoops

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Tuesday, November 17, 2009

Another loss to UNM

I can very easily see New Mexico State going 2-5 before Troy Gillenwater or Wendell McKines return. We have heard about depth on the team but I don't see it after the first two games. Rahman can only play so many minutes and right now Bandja Sy isn't ready to contribute. I could see how at some point he could but not this year. His length bothered Roman Martinez for about 10 seconds on one possession in the first half before Martinez took him down low and got fouled. Lumpkins played better but he missed some shots and got lost on some key defensive possessions in the second half.

UNM has better athletes on the front line right now with more length. The Aggies held their own on the defensive boards with the Lobos winning 29-26, but UNM had 12 offensive boards, including Will Brown's over the back follow that made it 86-78 with 3:13 to play. Hernst (who played great) missed a 3 the next time down. NMSU made it 86-80, but McDonald tapped in another follow with just over two minutes.

Again, I'm not calling out Sy, Lumpkins or Watson. They are D I role players right now. With Wendell in the game, Martinez doesn't get to the basket that easy and those offensive boards don't happen. I hope they can come back because if they don't, as great as JY and Gibson are (and for 10 minutes they were unguardable) it won't be enough.

The Aggies have a road game at Fullerton a team that is better this year, UCLA, at the Pit, where no current Aggie has won, and two games against UTEP, who I believe were picked third in the C-USA and have real depth in the post. It's hard to ask the starters to do much more, all five played at least 24 minutes. Hernst can't come out of the game. At one point, Teddy asked me why Jonathan was out in the second half. I told him he can't play 48 minutes. He may have to in order to keep the Aggies in games until.....

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32 comments:

Anonymous said...

you're probably correct on this. jy and gib are supposed to be the leaders. where were they last night in a big rival game? they didn't do their part to lead from the start. it is easy to come back after being down by such a margin. we need more out of those two. i'm just tired of hearing about wendell and troy, as those two let their teammates, coaches and fans down by not taking care of business in the books. i'm betting they won't be with us on the court this season. and, how about we stop recruiting kids that can't get through the clearinghouse! go aggies.

Anonymous said...

The Aggies just refuse to play consistent defense and Menzies doesn't seem to make them do it. Castillo and Rahman have lost so much weight they looked really weak physically. Normally Castillo would have been fighting for boards against bigger guys, getting steals and banging with the best of them...he's too skinny and weak now. Rahman has seemed to have lost all his confidence and has no strength to block shots or fight for position.

The Aggies made the Lobos look a lot better than they really are.

I'm in the process of moving from San Antonio, Texas to Albuquerque and I was here last night for the game. I am really over Menzies' coaching style. When Menzies got here he inherited an NCAA ready team that Theus had made and he totally blew it by losing to an inferior Boise team in the WAC title game in Las Cruces. The excuse people gave Menzies in 2008 was that he had to coach a bunch of "ego maniacs", then last year the team was "too young." Menzies has earned very few quality wins at NM State. Thank God for teams like Prairie View,North Carolina A&T and Oklahoma Panhandle, because otherwise NM State might not actually finish above
.500 this season.

I'm close enough now to attend more Aggie games, but after last night I may not go to any more. I'm really not happy with Menzies as the NM State coach.

Anonymous said...

Menzies is now 2-7 against our rivals and will more than likely be 2-10 by the time we play both rivalry games.

2-7 going on, 2-10!!
And you wonder why people call him Marvin Menzo!

Anonymous said...

1-4 vs unm and a 1-3 vs utep. A combined 2-7 against our two biggest rivals. Wow that's abysmal

Anonymous said...

McKay getting slaughtered by the Aggies a few years ago got him FIRED!!!!!

After we get double swept this year by the Slimers and BLOWS,,,,,BETTER have the same result for Menzies at the end of the year!!!! If not then someone else can purchase my 22 year held season tickets next year!!!!!

Anonymous said...

First of all, our defense is pathetic. A D1 team allowing 197 points in two games is just horrible. Last night everyone missed assignments, kept trying to correct their mistakes but the ball was already in the air. We cannot allow so many points because we dont have the power to put more points in. Something has got to be done about that or this will be a long season.

One thing that I felt cost us the game is the lack of killer instinct. The team fought hard to tie the game and finally take the lead and instead of putting the game away by continuing to play their game they slowed it down and allowed UNM to come back. All the intensity that was in that comeback run seemed to go away as soon as we were ahead by four and then poof just like that UNM was ahead again. It seemed like the team was playing to catch up not to win and when they caught up they just gave up. I understand Menzies wants to slow the game down because thats what I felt he wanted to do, but you have to be able to put teams away. We didnt do that and the result was another loss.

GS

Anonymous said...

I knew Menzies wasn't doing well, but I didn't realize his record was so bad against UNM and UTEP...that is pretty sad.

Anonymous said...

We can't have Lumpkins jacking up threes every chance he gets. He does better when he is in the center of the key dishing it out to the perimeter or dumping it down low. Also, for being a senior, Gibson is just making too many dumb mistakes. I was very disappointed in the lack of team basketball!

justin said...

GS@11:06

That point you mention in the game (caught up, then seemingly gave up) is when Gibson picked up his 4th and went to the bench for 4 minutes. He was absolutely the catalyst in the comeback, and not having him for that stretch killed us.

10 yr. vet said...

I watched some of last nights game on ESPN 360 and was absolutely astonished at the lack of transition defense. I'm of the opinion that this is in large part due to a lack of effort. Guys just simply didn't run back all the way, or AT ALL. I understand that this team is built to play high scoring games but a lack of effort falls squarely on the coaching staff.

That said, I can't overstate how much this team misses McKines. I understand he let people down by not taking care of his business but we have to hope he is going to make it right because this team needs him BADLY. I'm of the opinion that he is the true leader of this team and as he goes, so goes the rest of the team.

jimmy said...

Jimmy bets the 'fire the Coach' mob got pissed during that 30-15 run. Uh, is there anyone out there blogging this drivel who seriously thinks that Menzies or his staff have neglegted to mention blocking out on the defensive glass? Jimmy says fire Coach, too, if that's the case. The bodies were not there to keep the Lobos off the glass after the Aggies had the lead.
Did you not witness Troy hitting the winning shot last year before it got waved off, even though he is supposed to be able to have the space to go straight up and take a shot? I don't know how you fouls somebody while holding the ball?
Good call Justin; Gibson out-jumped 3 taller Lobos for a rebound at one point. There was heart and effort to spare after the halftime talk. Says something about the integrity of the NMSU diploma that the profs will flunk even the most gifted athletes. Jimmy's not sure UNM would allow that with so much money riding on Alford and all their other scandals. Lobos players displayed tremendous skill and talent in winning last nite. Doesn't the zone-D depend on the other team missing 3-ptr's so you can pack it in down low? Kudos to McDonald and Martinez. They broke the zone and after the 3's started missing they were there crashing the boards because the spacing was drawn way out.

Anonymous said...

yeah, Richie McKay got fired after losing a lot of games and Alford was getting out of the Big Ten with a price tag of $900,000 base salary plus perks. Are you a booster commited to keeping your season tickets after you're asked to pay for the upgrade? There's not another Lou Henson out there happy to work for $1 plus an occasional bag of Pings; except maybe William Benjamin will because he loves the game, too. Great call-in to Jack's post-game show!

Anonymous said...

Jason,
One of the El Paso TV stations had a story on graduation rates for NMSU & Utep athletics.

The eye opener was MBB where our is 36 and the national average is 75!!
I know they will say that it was the transition from Theus to Menzo but, only Herb Pope left.

Can you look into this?

Jefe

SM said...

Big Picture Comment (not concerning actual play):

NMSU basketball is supposed to compete. Lou Henson established a very consistent and competitive team when he left to Illinois. That tradition was carried through the 80's and 90's and even in the first few years of Henson's return. My years at the school (the Sun Belt years) were characterized by good teams, solid players, and hard-working attitude. We missed post-season play in 2002-03 when we should have received at least an NIT birth, but we were 4-0 against UNM and UTEP that year.

No coach at NMSU is expected to take us to the final 4. However, a few things are expected based on the tradition of Aggie basketball:

1) Beat UNM and UTEP, or at the very least protect your home court. I understand that it is tough to win in the Pit, as it is in the Don, but you have to beat your rivals at home. No question.

2) Win 20 games a year. This is not a difficult task in the WAC and considering the pre-season cupcakes we schedule every year. Heck, Theus won 18 games (I think) in his first year riding Ingram's leadership, after a 6 win season the year before.

3) Don't get embarassed, either on your home court or away. I should qualify this statement. When we schedule Arizona or Louisville on the road, it is ok to get beat up because they have superior talent. You can't go to St. Mary's and get blown out by plus 30.

4) Play D!!!!!!!!!

justin said...

Nice comment jimmy.

My problem with zone, at least as applied to our first two games, is that SMC, and especially UNM are not going to beat us by continually pounding the ball into the low post. This is the perfect application for aggressive man defense, like the kind we saw to open the first half.

UNM can not beat NMSU by continually going Hardeman vs. Rahman. The only way they can beat us is by getting one of their many shooters an open three. So why go to a defense that has already conceded an open perimeter shot, and is going to leave us in poor position for any offensive boards.

Against a team like last year's Nevada that bricked up 3 after 3 when we asked them to, Z works great. Against any team that's showing the ability to shoot, and the lack of ability to get anything in the post, Z is the wrong call, IMO.

Anonymous said...

ok, everyone slow down a bit. game two of the season, we are missing a couple guys who are our better front line players and two of the better players, at their positions, in the WAC. sure they didn't take care of business in the books, but last time i checked they get to correct that and rejoin the team. why do aggie fans always think they have the answers and don't want to buckle the chin strap tighter to work it out and make it better. aggie fans are always so quick to "fire the coach"! menzies is a quality person and a quality coach with areas to improve on just like all other coaches and other people in their fields of business. do we fire the barber who just botched up your haircut? im amazed that we aggie fans don't have a "lets get it done" mentality. fair weather fans. do you think that helps the situation? you think boston is going to get rid of menzies when he just gave him another extension this summer? no! get on the same page aggie fans and support the team as they work it out.
Go aggies.

justin said...

JG,

Thanks for posting the post-game press video. Please keep doing that if you can.

Anonymous said...

Some interesting time-out calling from the bench. Seemed like the Aggie coaching staff don't understand that you don't ice their own team when they are hot by calling unneeded time outs. Plus, it'd be nice to have one or two of them going down the stretch of the game.

I think Miner and Lobo fans are glad to see Marvelous Marv at NMSU.

Anonymous said...

We were supposed to be good this year. Shoot lets bring back Neil Mcarthy. He was an a-hole, but at least he won and took these rivalry games more serious.He also had us in the top 25 every year.

Anonymous said...

Hey anon 8:54, I dont know about you, but if i get a botched haircut, you bet your you know what that the barber would get fired.

Anonymous said...

Jack Nixon mentioned at one point in the second half that the Aggies were out-rebounding the Lobos by three, 29-26. The post-game stat was 41 to 33, Lobos.

Check my math, but most Aggies will agree that represents a 15 to 4 run for the Lobos down the stretch. JG, what was the margin in 2nd-chance pts?

Anonymous said...

JG - if somebody gives me a bad haircut I die it crimson and go get crazy at Pan Am and try to get in the ref's head. It was working for a while Tues when JY was racking up all of those free throws. Once he saw a few of those go in, like any pure shooter, suddenly he couldn't miss from downtown. That set Gibson off. So Menzies really can't control a lot of what transpires during the game, but the fans sure as heck can at the home games! I do kindof feel stupid with my hair color today but Sat's another game...

jimmy said...

Hey anon 1:49, do you have boosters who pay out the remainder of your barber contracts after you give them the ol' heave ho?

Anonymous said...

If Barbara Couture can get a half-million dollar retention bonus to be president long term, let's sweeten the pot for the coaches who have to take all the criticism.

Anonymous said...

Let's get it done mentality? The two "starters" didn't get it done with their grades. That's who didn't get it done.

You wonder why the Aggies over the last few years start so poorly? Grades are part of the answer. What the guys who don't make their grades don't realize is that they are contributing to the Aggie losses to teams like UTEP and UNM. Those loses hurt the Aggies at-large opportunities in the NCAA tournament.

Anonymous said...

I think Menzies should have got the boot the first season when he lost the WAC championship on his own home floor. This is his 3rd season and he is loaded with talent and depth. I think most Aggie fans have already lost their patience....so people please stop coming on here and saying to give Menzies a chance. Menzies is paid to coach, he's not a volunteer and this is not a regular 9 to 5 office job where one can sit on their can and pretend to work...collegiate athletics are competitive and if you can't hack it, you need to get out. Menzies can go volunteer coach with the Boys and Girls Club if he doesn't care about winning. I could care less if Menzies is a nice guy or not, he's not doing his job efficiently and he needs to go. Whether people like it or not, it's a reality that winning in college ball is equal to education...if you don't like it, then don't follow college sports.

Anonymous said...

Ritchie McKay's contract cost UNM $581,688 to buy out. So getting the Couture deal isn't that much of a stretch for coaches. And Couture would have to keep coming to work!

Anonymous said...

I heard from a person close to the program that only McKines or only Gillenwater would return, not both of them. They wouldn't say which one of them would be returning but it's not going to be both of them. I guess one of these two geniuses dug himself into a really deep hole academically and wont be able to return this year. That's bad because we obviously need both of them back.

Anonymous said...

I have a follow up to 8:08am, if someone doesnt play due to grades, do they lose their scholarship? Im sure someone will ask if we redshirt them for the year?

Anonymous said...

Of course you lose your scholarship and no, you can't redshirt for academic reason!

Boy, Menzies is recruiting some future janitors, truck drivers and trash workers.
These dummies can't even pass remedial classes! Those that are on the court, can't rebound or play defense.

I'm glad I didn't re-new my tickets this year. I will wait until Menzies is fired to become a season ticket holder once again.

Anonymous said...

I believe if they are academically ineligible, they lose the scholarship. Is that correct?

As far as who will be eligible or not next semester, we will need to wait for final grades. There is so much talk about both of them being eligible but bottom line is, it is still all up in the air. I don't have much faith in either one of them when it comes to academics; they both have proven they don't consider school a priority so I won't be surprised if only one of them returns.

Anonymous said...

Troy already used his redshirt year. If he isn't ready to play on 12/13, he's done.

Wendell could be redshirted if he's not eligible, but the program would have to (IMO) question the commitment of resources to a player who can't get it done.

We can say things like "They just don't care about their team", and there may be some small grain of truth to that, but there is a long list of people to blame for the situation, including the academic support staff who let it get that bad, former teachers and mentors who let these kids slide by in HS because they were good at putting a ball in a hoop, parents who failed to emphasize the value of education, and yes, the players themselves.

FWIW, if you aren't reading Wendell's blog (http://itswen2100.blogspot.com/), I would encourage you to do so. I think you'll come away with a different impression of the young man, and one who is committed to doing right by his team, his children, his fans, and himself going forward.