New Mexico State hoops

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Saturday, November 14, 2009

One to forget

I'm not going to pile on. That was a disappointing performance from my perspective and I couldn't imagine how fans, players or coaches are feeling. Here is a Menzies quote...

"Every loss is disappointing but we missed an opportunity in a sense that we had a chance to get a road win against a quality team that will have a good RPI."

For those of you who read the Sun-News, I wrote a story last week on guards Jahmar Young and Jonathan Gibson. I feel like with the Aggies eligibility situation, Young and Gibson have to not only play well, but they have to play extremely well in order for the Aggies to not only compete, but to win games. I think both guys played OK and you can't really take their stats too seriously in such a lopsided game. The reason I think they have that on their shoulder is because the four-spot is invisible. It's not Bandja Sy's Kelly Merker, Robert Lumpkins or Tyrone Watson's fault because the Aggies need to play someone at that spot, but to get seven points and seven rebounds from the position puts a lot of pressure on Gibson, Young and Rahman.

Rahman could have a big night against the Lobos since they are also struggling to find an interior player but Young and Gibson have to be better every single night for this team right now and can't get off to a slow start like they did Friday.

27 comments:

Anonymous said...

St. Mary's is an up tempo, good shooting team. The Aggies shouldn't be surprised that they got blown out. None of the Aggies know how to play proper defense, especially on the perimeter. Talent doesn't mean anything when players are too lazy to play defense.

Anonymous said...

What an absolute embarrasment!

You can say two kids are ineligible, blah, blah, blah. But it comes down to coaching and getting the team ready and fired up.

Menzies is a joke and this team will flirt with mediocrity for the third straight year, under his watch!!

Anonymous said...

How did Rahman look? Was he dominant, or were they garbage baskets cleaning up missed shots?

Anonymous said...

Coaching, Coaching, Coaching, and it is poor at best.

Another 50/50 year at best and 0-4 against the Slimers and Lo-Blows...

Time for a coaching and AD Change!!!

April said...

I live in CA and was at the game, with my buddy from SMC so I heard it from his side all night. This was embarrassing by the way.

This played out horribly for the matchups, and SMC was bigger across the board. The guy they had on Young was bigger, stronger, and a defensive specialist. He's the guy the guy that slowed down Steph Curry in their matchup late last year. I agree with JG that Young has to step up for the Aggies to compete, but SMC bsiacally took him out, and gave them everything else-which wasn't much.

Here's what I saw:
1. The team was unprepared. I only saw about 2 actual offensive plays the entire game. They didn't get anything in transition (which I thought was ging to be a strength), and sruggled several times inbounding the ball.
2. They started flat, were missing jumpers (down 13-2 right away), and didn't play aggressively. They looked like they didn't know what to do. Opening on the road against a tema like that in a tiny gym with no crowd at all may have factored in. There was no excitement about anything from the opening tip.
3. Got absolutely nothing out of Hernst LaRoche. I don't even remember him being on the floor. He made 2 free throws late, and I was like "Oh yeah, what has he done tonight?" I realized then that they were his only points.
4. Everyone was playing out of position. At one point Merker was playing center against Samhan.
5. SMC had more talent-even at the guard spots. Dellavadova is a player, and made Gibson look like he was on the JV.
6. Gibson was the quickest guy on the floor, but still can't get his own shot. He had the ball too much, and will be better as a catch & shoot type once the bigs get back.
7. Lots of gambling on defense which led to easy lay ups or wide open 3s. None of the gambling that I can remember led to any TOs, or easy buckets. SMC didn't miss when NMSU gave them those opps. They were simply more fundamentally sound.
8. I don't think Tyrone watson ever passed the ball, and shot 0% from the floor.
9. They gave up 100 becasue they took early, bad shots, with no offense being run.
10. Too small on the interior. Rahman did good on Samhan who was in foul trouble all night. This was the only bright spot of the night, but SMC got whatever they wanted inside. Their back-up 5, and their starting 4 made our front line look bad all night.
11. By the way--Rahman looked really good against arguably the best center in the WCC. Once he gets help inside, he could be better than I hoped for this year.
12. I was surprised to see Menzies going to him in the post almost every time down. I guess at the end of the day, he was the only guy scoring. Just didn't expect their identity to be the walk it up throw it in the post type--especailly when you needed so much out of your guards on a night like last night. THe plan must have been to get Samhan in foul trouble, which worked, but I think Menzies though his backcourt would have the advantage after that, which wasn't the case.
12. Stretches of good defense, but SMC always found the open guy and knocked down a J. Lots of breakdowns too though, and lots of easy buckets.
13. Didn't see the team chemistry we've been hearing about. No communications, high-fives, encouraging words....nothing. Looked like they lacked heart, and weren't into it. Didn't play as a team.
14. The team had elss talent on the floor, was outhustled & outworked, and was less prepared than SMC.

Again--just my perspective.

Anonymous said...

We gave up 100 points to a team that will not score 100 points again this year. Rahman's buckets were legit. He played well which is encouraging. Hopefully a loss like this will wake them up. All in all, it was very discouraging.

Anonymous said...

This is a sad start. St. Mary's is a respectable team, but they are not Duke or North Carolina. Seriously Jason, does Menzies work with the team on defense at all? I agree with some of the others on here...we are looking at another
.500 year....maybe a couple wins over, but not any more than that. It's ridiculous how many times St. Mary players were left wide open for shots.

Menzies is a great recruiter, but he operates his team like a run and gun juco program. He doesn't seem to grasp Division I coaching concepts.

Anonymous said...

Menzies' best recruits are academically ineligible. He has no control over this team and no concept when it comes to game management. The team is poorly coached--there's a reason it took Menzies 25 years to get a head coaching job. Even worse, the Aggies don't play hard and have no basketball 'smarts.' They'll come on in the second half of the season, but by then it'll be too late as usual. Oh the curse of Neil!!! Please, lord Neil forgive us and the power hungry scum bags who ran you out of LC!!!!

Anonymous said...

I agree with you 100 percent Anon 5:42 PM!! Someone who tells it like it is.

Most of the young punks that come on here probably don't even know what Neil you are talking about...history to them is what happened in 2007.

Anonymous said...

Anon 4:33 PM, (Nov. 14). I understand what you are saying and I'm not like alot of the hostile people on here that will call you names for remaining positive or for having a different opinion. But you have to understand that the way the Aggies played against St. Mary's is the way Marvin Menzies coached teams have played since he got here. Menzies does not appear to have any kind of game managment skills, his teams never play hard or consistent defense and he does not seem to care about winning non-conference games. I will say it like I said before, a mid-major like NM State MUST win a lot of non-conference games to have any chance at an at-large NIT or NCAA bid.

I have always been an Aggie supporter, hell I graduated from a Texas school (not UTEP) and I still love the Aggies because I'm from here originally....but I was not happy with Menzies hiring from the beginning. I felt like the Aggies should have gone with Nolan Richardson, an experienced and proven winner, so they could have at least kept going what Theus started. Someone on here stated how it took 25 years before Menzies got a head coaching offer in D-I...hello, that should have been a sign to the NM State admin that maybe he wasn't cut out for this job.

I'm glad that at least a few people are seeing that hiring Menzies might have been a mistake.

I think the kids that Menzies recruited are good people and good athletes, but they can't play to their potential when they don't have a coach that is capable of helping them there.

And also, like others on here, I think Neil McCarthy should have never been fired. McCarthy had nothing to do with that scandal back in the 90's, it was proven that one of his greedy and underhanded assistants coordinated everything because he was trying to position himself for jobs at bigger schools. NM State made a HUGE mistake by getting rid of McCarthy.

Anonymous said...

I'm a young punk who grew up in the McCarthy era. He was a great coach and he had this program going very well. But, he didn't graduate anybody and he cheated. It's not about the power hungry forces that forced him out of LC. If the university would have kept him, the NCAA would have came down hard on NMSU. Those were great times when Neil was here. But he was a cheater and it caught up with him.

The negativity on the blogs will change with an Aggie win on Tuesday. Lets see what happens before we open our mouths/keypads anymore.

Anonymous said...

Marvin Menzo is a recruiter and not a coach.
We should bring back Reggie and let Menzo be in charge of recruiting.
He has no busines being a D1 coach!

GOS said...

I was at the game and it was a pathetic display of defense and rebounding that I have seen in a long time. I didn't keep track, but I would say that the majority of the shots made by St Mary were uncontested layups or 3 point shots. I know the Aggies can shoot the ball, but it is defense and rebounding that will win you games. The majority of the time when either team took a shot, 4 of the 5 Aggies were running back toward the other end of the court, leaving Rahman to rebound on his own. Rebounding and defense is desire and effort and the Aggies did not show it in the second half after St Mary made their first three shots.
I was wondering what Menzies was doing when he was putting Merker in at the center position to guard their 6'11" centers. I know he is a missing some big men, but he has a walk on 6'5" player playing center, it was no match. What about using some of his scholly players, if they are not better than a walk on player why are they on scholarship?
When the game got out of hand in the second half, it seemed like they stopped running their offense and whoever had the ball was shooting it, that is how JY and JG got the majority of their points. The sad thing was when St Mary put in their second stringers they were still putting it on the Aggies.
Menzies, you and your coaches need to get off your butts and start working harder in practice on defense and blocking out for rebounds. If this continues we will be in for a looong season.

Anonymous said...

Well put Anon 12:21 PM.

I hope the Aggies do get it together and beat UNM, but another home loss to the Lobos is going to keep a lot of fans away. I respect your opinion Anon 11:05, but I go back as fan long before McCarthy and I am a little frustrated with Menzies. He's starting to remind me a lot of Weldon Drew, who didn't really do much with the Aggie program.

I would rate the UNM game on Tuesday as a must win.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:47. You made some great points but...
Nolan Richardson? Washed up. Had a good run with Arkansas but wouldnt have got the players Menzies gets.

And c'mon man. You dont think McCarthy knew what was going on? Gimme a break. It was his program and his fault. Plus he graduated something like 11% of his players. He won games and sold tickets but he didn't do the things that the NCAA requires. Bottom line. I do wish he was still here though. lol.

Anonymous said...

An ugly game. Please no more McCarthy talk. I to was at NMSU near the end of his era. The coach who did his master thesis on free throw shooting and got us in trouble with illegal dealings with players through his coaches. Flush the SMC game and let's see what happens with UNM.

Anonymous said...

I'm sure McCarthy wasn't completely innocent, but he is my favorite Aggie coach of all time. I too wish he was still here.

Anonymous said...

I have been reading and waiting through all the comments, but no one has even mentioned what Gordo was doing during the St. Mary's game. If you look at the box, he basically was doing nothing. I think most hometown fans will let him get off easy and take pot shots at the rest of the players and the coaches. Gordo needs to produce this year!

GOS said...

In response to Anon 7:59, Gordo could not do anything. St Mary knows how to play defense. Gordo could not get his shot off with somebody on him. He cannot create his own shot when he gets the ball. All he was doing was standing out at the 3 pt line with JY and JG waiting for someone to pass them the ball. The Aggies were more athletic than St Mary's, but St Mary's knew how to position themselves on offense and defense. Menzies should take a few lessons from St Marys coaches on how to play defense. That is why Gordo could not do anything.

They also need to work on their free throws, it seems like every year this is a problem. They should take lessons from the womens team.

Lastly I would like to thank Wendell and Troy for letting their teammates down, if they would learn that they are students first and do their school work, the Aggies would not be in this predicament with not having enough big men available. Don't blame the coaches for not helping them with their school work, and I am sure they did, but the coaches are not going to be around them all their lives to help them out.

I am a die hard Aggie fan and I really hope they can learn off this loss, I will always support the Aggies.

Anonymous said...

Bob Knight was crappy to play for but he graduated everybody with diplomas. That's why kids are at NMSU, let's not forget. Neil McCarthy's intent was to graduate poor classroom performers with meaningless degrees before he was caught. Was he doing the student/athletes any favors or was that all for the benefit of Neil McCarthy? Say what you will Reggie Nation, you can't afford Theus'inflated price tag. However, he definitely didn't coach that last trip to the NCAAs - - a freshman (Gibson) and role player (Knauber) won that WAC final and you're gonna tell me Reggie drew that up? Puuu-leeeeezzzzzzz. Reggie's top players couldn't win it the following year under Menzies and you're saying coaching was the difference? Hello. Three OT's could have gone the Aggies way if somebody stepped up, but the point is Reggie's main cogs didn't win it for Reggie, either. Same result for Reggie or Menzies, no difference. Menzies is a better value that NMSU can afford. He had UT State beat in March and he'll beat Stew Morril again this year. Besides fiscal reality, Menzies cares more about the kids than himself (we hope). In that respect he's closer to coach Knight than Reggie Theus is... The days of verbally abusing players are over, too, so that's the end of the Bob Knight comparison. But some of you bloggers apparently want to see Menzies in that old role of stomping up and down the sidelines screaming and grabbing for folding chairs! Maybe Menzies is supposed to need physical retraint to keep him from punching Coby Karl in the throat to be considered a decent coach, is that it!? Now I'm concerned that a program supplemented with players who are used to their sinks draining anti-clockwise can run on NMSU. But it's no time to freak out after one game what with the Lobos and their fans invading Pan Am tomorrow night! I'd take the game NMSU played Friday over the first game the Lobos played. UNM won't sweep.

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:37 -- GREAT GREAT GREAT POST

Anonymous said...

I remember a lot of people here were going on and on about how woeful the football team is and praying that basketball season started. Well baskeball season is here and it doesnt seem like it to you people. The Aggies lost, they got beat in every aspect of the way and thats that. This is the first game of the season and yet everyone is throwing in the towel. You all are so used to the bad football here that one loss means the end of the season for baskteball. It will get better and games like this will happen throughout the season, no team goes without having them. Now on to Menzies. Is he the greatest coach that we can have? No. We have been one shot away from the NCAA tourney and the WAC championship game last season. This is a coach that just like his team needs work, will have tough nights but will deliver. Stop moaning and complaining because of one game, we have the rest of the season and the WAC tourney to get us to the NCAA or NIT.

GS

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:37 TRUE - see you at Pan AM tomorrow

Anonymous said...

April - big thanks from the Mesilla valley for enduring the taunts to bring us that look-in. Not pretty... I'd say even Jack Nixon could not have made it sound any worse than Kyle D. did on KGreat.

Anonymous said...

So Anon 12:37 let me ask you this; who's closer to Bobby Knight in coaching, Steve Alford or Marvin Menzies? Alford's got the crazed, maniacal, frothing at the mouth rage part down and it gets the Lobos a couple critical calls at the ends of big games. That's the difference between his salary and Menzies. Oh that and the NCAA tournament chmpnshp rings he and Bobby Knight own. This is rediculous comparing Menzies to Knight. What next? Comparisons to Rupp and Wooden?

Pistol Pedro said...

I love everybody's passion!

Take it to the Pan Am tomorrow and cheer on our Aggies.

Beat the Lobos!

Anonymous said...

Menzies is a class act, maybe he has had to learn some things on the job and will continue to learn as he goes. I am sure all the time he has had to spend fundraising has taken time away from some other things he could be doing that translate to W's.